Why Bounty is Broken
So let's be blunt, yea? Bounty 12 is shit. It's broken. And it's not because PvP is broken. It's broken because of poor choices, self-serving pansy ass wannabe pirates and the fact that everyone has forgotten what exactly it means to be a damn PIRATE in this game.
I'm not even going to get in depth of why and how certain mechanics are broken, but I'm also not going to sugar coat this. This Bounty is a clear indication of where the game has gone wrong and the path choices that were made that were clearly not thought out beyond the 'now' and 'me' mentality. Some people need to get back to understanding that decisions should be viewed through the filter of 'long view' and 'big picture'.
PvP is NOT PvE
Bounty is PvP. I'm sorry if that hurts your little feelings, but this absolutely basic premise seems to have been completely ignored. It was ignored in developing the rules for banking, it was ignored for developing the rules for guaranteed bounty, it is ignored in so many aspects of this thing it boggles my mind, but I digress. Let's look at specific aspects of Bounty and see if we can put them into this bigger picture for people by proffering a proper alternative.
Banking
Banking on demand is kind of meh. Being able to fully bank on demand is fully asinine. Being able to mutually hit one another at 9,000 bounty and bank to gain 4,500 each without losing bounty is beyond fully asinine.
This is supposed to be PvP. Part of the risk is losing your swag. Part of the reward is stealing someone's swag. If you are scared to death of losing your boutny and don't want to engage in PvP - don't play. Wait for the prizes in the raid. To cry and moan that you need to be able to bank on demand - after the incorporation of the auto-bank at 10k - is a clear indication that you probably don't PvP generally.
The base concept of Bounty was to equip those players that played PvP with the equipment, early, so that they could play that aspect of the game and engage one another at that level. Those that did not, could catch the blueprints at a delayed time.
This isn't supposed to be a handout. This isn't supposed to be a PvE event. I sure as hell do not want to be grinding a second raid. Stop, just stop this foolishness. This is absolutely exhausting.
If there is an insistence upon a bank-on-demand option in Bounty- associate a hard in-game (read: Bounty) cost to it in the form of a hard cap percentage to each bank that you do and bar the ability to bank while in combat - any combat. Hell, personally, I think if you pop a doorknocker onto your base you should get a 3 min banking delay if it gets hit, but... back to the hard cap:
For example, day 1 you get 5 banks? Cool. Bank 1 you only bank 90% of your total. Bank 2 & 3, only 80%. Bank 4 would be 75%. Bank 5 would be your last bank and at 50%. Day 2 would be Bank 1 - 90%, Bank 2 - 80%, Bank 3 - 75%,, Bank 4 - 50%.
Why you ask? Economics. PvP. Psychology. This would motivate players to bank by choice less, so that they don’t ‘lose’ bounty from banking, thus promoting them to carry a higher running total and fostering a higher overall ‘available’ bounty in play in the system (we'll get to the auto-banking thing... soon). It also may inhibit players from banking between hits and preclude them from ‘taking their ball and going home’ by banking everything and doing something else. It should also foster a little higher ‘time at the keyboard’. This also will still allow those players that are very reserved and cautious to still have a goal (that increases over the days) they could conceivably bank at and ‘go to bed without worrying', but every base would still be worth something. The PvP risk and reward dynamic is returned to Bounty as well in this fashion.
Players use a gunboat and bank before the other player even gets a singular chance at the base. That's ignoring the other issues of players driving and that the attacker gets one shot at the base, regardless of entry, lag, etc.
Banking on-demand at the full amount is, at it's core, in direct opposition with the concept of PvP in this game. This also will absolutely exclude the need for the idiocy we saw last Bounty.
Guaranteed Bounty on Player Bases
Yea... so... I've admitted it. I was so incensed at that this short-sighted and ignorant mechanic was added to last Bounty that after the notes came out, I discussed the mechanic with a player or two and planned to take absolute full advantage of the mechanic. Much like players in this Bounty are taking advantage of that broken banking system and the archaic mechanic of starting a battle instantly if you enter your base to 'defend'. No, it wasn't an exploit. To be an exploit, the mechanic would have to be used in a way that the company did not foresee and/or in such a way that the mechanic was used outside the intended parameters that it was designed for. I can say with absolute certainty that the former did not apply and that the mechanic was used exactly as designed. For comparative analysis- I wonder how many players that complained about this mechanic being 'exploited' are setting up their OP with the full upgrades and armors and tach installations in order to make their OPs almost impossible to kill inside of a 5 minute hit. Do they draw a comparison between the two? Those setups certainly weren't intended when the upgrades came out as they didn't exist. Just sayin'- throwing stones and glass houses and all.
That being said, instead of trying to over-complicate this horrible idea in order to incorporate it again, just bin it. The design above for the banking system makes the 'need' for the existence of this abomination absolutely valueless. No, don't put it in the game. Regardless of any limits you try and place on it it is far, far too easy to take advantage of. Trying to add complexity to this mechanic in order to implement it instead of addressing the nexus of the need (as I did above) is exactly how this game's complexity has spiraled out of control.
For all those 'pirates' calling foul because 'they' loved it and 'they' didn't 'exploit' it, I'm sorry. No. I'm not fooled and neither is anyone else. You can't go farming baby seals non-stop throughout Bounty for easy points because they are auto-repairing and are 30 sec 200 or 300 points. That is EXACTLY the sort of short-sighted, self-serving mentality that got this idiocy implemented in the first place. This is about as good a mechanic for this event as was the engineering design of the Ford Pinto for a car.
Live Edit: Came up with an interesting idea while discussing this- a LOT of people liked the flat amount added to bases- this one is simple- 2 types of OPP bases. First is normal points, no guard, 2nd is guard included and double the points. There you go and you don't have to be clubbing baby seals the entire time.
Outpost Upgrades
Do I need to explain this one? With new releases there are combinations that absolutely kill base hit attempts. And people still hold drones and drive up on hulls, insta-start battles, etc. etc. Makes for soooooo much fun hitting a real base.
Auto-Bank of 10k
The next rail-car in this train of thought would be the 10k auto-bank. This concept I do like, however, I am not the biggest fan of its implementation.
In the current PvP environment, the 10k works, only because PvP is so broken that you can guarantee a loss to an attacker through the combination of the bank-on-demand, the use of base guards to drive and chase the only real reliably viable base hitting combo in the game, namely the Sloth fleet, and the OP upgrades.
IF (BIG if) PvP is ever corrected, then this mechanic should be re-visited I think. While it's a great mechanic currently, it also precludes the 'big hits' some of the highest level PvP players crave. Given that these are also typically some of larger spending players in the game, it only makes sense to try and bring some of that back into the game. Maybe not to the extent that we saw previous to this current banking iteration. Yes, this won't be a popular position, but let's face it, this is supposed to be a PvP event, and PvP is traditionally the turf of these players. We can not cater events to just one segment of the players base, that is how overall balance is lost. So that there is ample opportunity for the 'smaller' players I envision a system where the auto-banking would look something like this:
5, 10, 10, 10, 15 thereafter until the next day cycle.
In conjunction with the changes above, this would allow ample opportunity for the smaller players to achieve plenty of Bounty and reach their goals, but if you are in the upper echelon and want 'everything' the possibility of opening up yourself to significant losses (and gains) will now exist.
Pricing
When did we go to bi-monthly raids? As in other aspects of the game we are seeing rampant inflation in an event that really should not be this much of an event, ya feel me? Players are burnt the hell out. Auto hulls don't auto, so you have to drive and grind. Over and over and over again. Map targets are getting progressively more punitive at each release to the extent that the auto hull (a top tier hull that was an equal investment for players as the Hydra) was effectively locked out of the 103 base parts target forcing the use of the Hydra in those targets (the skill a/k/a driving hull). This all adds to the overall feeling of always having to do something, always having to engage fully, rarely relaxing and enjoying unless you can 'game' the system somehow and mitigate the grind.
This is causing terminal burnout in the community. Players are exhausted. The opportunities for 'fun' are becoming less and less. Adding to this perpetual feeling of grinding is all of this inflation which then makes players feel even more exhausted and frustrated. I would implore this - if the intent is to have a larger distribution of Bounty prizes than originally designed for when Bounty was first implemented- reduce the costs of the prizes, don't try and come up with complex 'solutions' by re-inventing Bounty monthly and impel more engagement by inflating overall prize costs. You don't re-invent PvP monthly, that's PvE.. oh wait...
Time Commitment
This clearly follows on the above section. Forcing engagement, while in some instances is great from a business perspective, must needs be tempered by the psychological pressure that can be put on a player and player base when said forced engagement is continual and persistent. Temper this. Re-evaluate the overall strategy of player engagement because currently the overall feel is one of burn-out.
Reward (Opp Bases)
Even with no guard fleets in these bases, the time engagement for some of these bases truly sucks. Honestly, I'm not sure how to easily correct this other than increasing the pay out. This could be done complimentary to a pricing adjustment, or can be ignored if the pricing adjustment is significant enough to offset this issue.
Locator
I'm tired of repeating this month after month. The locator sucks. Really and truly, how damn hard is it to code a random list from the whole of the world that you are in? (Here is a hint: it's not.) I mean, we already deal with tons of lag just trying to drag across the map (why are the Gantries still here again?) I think we could live with a slight delay of results while a proper randomized search populates the locator list.
Ok, that's it. This is partially why I rarely write. The only time I am 'passionate' anymore in this game is when things are really borked. I'm exhausted. I don't have the time to commit needed to maintain he level I expect since so many things have been 'adjusted' to maximize engagement (and likely h0ped for coining). Is there more? Sure. But I can barely see past my eyelids, so it's time for bed. G'night my fellow pirates.
Risk:
This one really needs to be tweaked for this, particularly if other things run concurrently. Docks - instant repair, or something like 10 minutes repair. Let players play. Bases (so you can adjust to your enemy) should repair a little faster OR have a flat 2 gold cost to repair.
LIVE EDIT: Wow... this is interesting. I'm actually very curious now about something having had an opportunity to review the comments and hate mail (and mail agreeing).
Clearly, I believe that a PvP event should revolve around, you know, PvP, and approached this in that mindset.
Also as clear is that there are many players who disagree. I'd love to hear what those that disagree think that the Bounty should entail then. I mean, I don't mind that you think I'm a douchebag or that my view doesn't count because of my position or whatever... that's fine, BUT I want to know why. Why is my premise wrong? Why shouldn't this be a PvP event? Why is banking 100% at-will good for a PvP event? Why should PvP not have a basis of theft of another player's swag? You may think I don't take certain things into consideration, but... maybe... I do. ;)
Bounty is better than it has ever been and while i agree that there are some kinks in the gears that need fixing(attackers still getting 50% bounty even though the defender has banked) it is over all in the best form it has ever been in. Auto banking allows you to save up and store bounty so you don't have to waste a manual bank, manual banking is only the best feature ever in the history of bounty, if it weren't for the bug as stated above it would be the perfect anti douche bag button for those who are to lazy to go out and earn their own bounty and want to kick other players in the groin and steal their hard earned points. And before you go blah blah blah but pvp event though I would like to say yes pvp is fine it is part of the game but to tread all over other players and steal their hard work for your own gains is the very definition of being a douche bag plain and simple. It's not just a persons rank that's at stake it's their ability to earn prizes, imagine if in the raid the store was locked and you couldn't spend any points till after the raid you managed to amass 200 million points for the new shinny prizes but some dick bag comes in and snipes your raid fleet causing you to lose 50% of all your hard work. You would be pretty pissed off no? This is what its like every bounty, and every bounty kixeye encourages douche bag behavior because the bounty gained is taken away from the other player. For kixeye to fix this issue they would need to remove the attackers ability to gain 50% of the defenders bounty and reinstate the each base is worth x number of points and have no one lose points because of a failed defense.
ReplyDeleteBounty this month sucks...Can't find bases in the locator, the YO's giving more dmg than they've been....and PVP was the original insight of this game, not just a "part" of it...YOU might be having a good bounty, but its at the cost of most of the pirates out there NOT being able to...and since when did being a douch become different than being a pirate? suck it up whiner....its a battle game, deal with it or don't play....
DeleteSeems to me that stealing someone else's hard earned chit is the definition of being a pirate LOL. Sniping someone's fleet because you are all pissy is being a douchebag...period. If you are so butthurt over players/groups farming you then call in some friends and have a smashapalooza! That is the bp way is it not?
DeleteSo just to be clear, your position is that players should never benefit from attacking another player in a PvP event if possible? Wouldn't that just make the event another Raid instead of a PvP event?
DeleteNo its that players should not benefit from attacking other players at the cost of said other players hard work. Flat value for bases should work fine, going in and stealing 50% of the points some one has spent either a vast amount of time or coin is being a douche bag and should not be behavior encouraged by kixeye especially when you have options to get points that don't royally screw over other players.
DeleteMr Anonymouse,
DeleteA constant reward on everyone's base makes baby seals worth points every 4 hours. The baby seals will be less likely to join bounty.
Comparing pvP to pvE as you did shows you want a pvp event. Bounty should be more like medals than the raid.
The reward for defending you base should be keeping your bounty.
As an easy target, I like the thrill of getting my 800 every 6 hours and then hitting replica bases to reach the nest auto banking point.
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Flat pay out can definitely work if its done correctly. Tie it to tech level instead of player level and have it so that if you hit some one of a much lower tech level than yourself the bounty gained from the hit is virtually non existent. If they were to also make buildings repair much faster(approximately 9 times faster) a hit during bounty would be a lot less devastating to those lower level players since they could be up and running in a few mins or so and have fleets back on the map to do chores or collect bounty for themselves. This would help alleviate some of the issues on the pvp side allowing those who actually want pvp to do so and not impact other's game time as much and still allow those who don't really want to do pvp to still have a chance to go out an hit replica bases for bounty so they can get prizes to help defend their base.
Deletesome hurry and change georges diaper he cried so hard in this post think he took a boo boo when the point and click pirates can't freely farm every single regular and small player for all their bounty if he had his way no one would have check points just open point to farm all day when those farm stop playing event are you gonna cry to your kixeye mod and developer buddys in your group to hand out free points as your participation trophy
ReplyDeletereading comprehension isn't your thing is it? where did you read any of that? I don't see anyone else trying to fix this shit and it looks like you're whinging so bad that you're making shit up because you want to keep your participation trophy... but he's the one with the diaper?? lol
DeleteIf that was what you took away from the article, I may have to agree with the reading comprehension thing. I never said anything that was even remotely close to the neighborhood of your accusations.
Deletei can read and fully comprehend what you are saying but your whining about banks and driving and people defending not in a manner you and your team of whiners want or like just over shadows some of the valids points you have made i would rather do more or almost all pvp but you can only hit people so many times and they lose hope and enjoyment and just quit event all together maybe before you make list of demands you and the diva squad will threaten to boycott about budget yourself to 100 coins drop the diva squad and join a small team playing and get their perspective and logic of it or at least understand their pain then come to a conclusion not just a one sided conclusions for the top divas squads and just because the mechanics don't fully suit you and the divas does not mean they are bad for the game in a whole
DeleteI've played in very, very small alliances and very large alliances. I have run the gamut. I also listen to just about every player that proffers a valid articulated opinion. The only one whining here is you honestly. You have offered nothing in terms of correction, you have offered nothing for an opposing argument or position- you merely state I'm whining and am clueless. I mean you completely ignore the fact that I have addressed just about everything and everyone inclusively. Where exactly have I put forth anything that is as one-sided as you allege? And what is a better alternative then? Much easier to toss a rock than actually think through and discuss, isn't it?
DeleteAlso- I hate to break it to you but I am under 100 gold a month, let alone per event.
Again, you may want to re-read and separate what I stated as personal opinion and what I proposed (not demanded) as an adjustment to the current format. Maybe analyze the situation in its entirety rather than have some sort of emotional reaction to it and ignore segments of the player base because they don't agree with your personal opinion.
i'm just laughing you i am not mad or whining i'm over 150k in bounty and happy with format they could bring back every base worth some points as longs as your diva squad does not super exploit it again like last time
Deletesorry george but kixeye is not burger king can't have everything your way i vote you join price and pb professor you are just poison to the game you and your sds7 girlfriends should change name to the point and click divas we are number 1 because we cry the loudest to our kixeye daddys to save us or we boycott and mislead the masses
ReplyDeleteYou should do us all a favor and do that yourself. All these anonymous haters that seem to not have actually read the article. Is this a TFC admin or friend trying to discredit one of your best presenters that you booted because he called shit like it was?
DeleteOr is this an sds7 hater that can't get past that one little name because he thought he was king shit and got farmed by them? Yea, most of them are dicks, but doesn't mean you ignore the guy because of the clan he's in, that's stupid.
Might want to read this shit again because it was pretty damn good. I don't know if I'd go with ALL of it, but it sounds a hell of a lot better than what we got now.
Quite honestly, my way actually doesn't mirror what I wrote. I know that may come as a surprise to many of you, but this is actually an analysis of the event and situation.
DeleteBOUNTY needs to go end of story and SDS7 need to stop crying to George
ReplyDeleteYou do know george is in SDS7...right?
DeleteOh Snoopy, you know me better than that. Srsly?
Deletewell said and spot on George
ReplyDeletewow, a lot of people can't get past the sds7 thing huh? I mean I understand, theyre asshats, but damn. This is the only thing I've seen that tries to address this shitshow. I'm not sure on some of it, like the auto bank thing, idk that I want them to touch it b/c they may go back to the shit way it used to be done. and while I love trolling people hitting me by banking,but I'm not stupid enough to ignore that has to get adjusted or something. these whinging bitches need to suck it up and act like men and read the shit with open eye. at least the millennial who posted first gave it a go was honest and flat out admitted he just wanted his participation trophy and to have his safe space that no one could touch him in. lol
ReplyDeleteSpoken like some cry baby from the top of the food pile, you usually write decent stuff, this time however.....
ReplyDeleteSo tell me what is wrong. What would be more appropriate? How would YOU correct this event to entice and reward PvP play? It's exceptionally simple to criticize- much harder to come up with a balanced plan that is inclusive and viable. Try it. I've yet to see anyone posting complaints poke any solid holes in the above plan. Maybe it really is scary for those players that don't like/do PvP, but you have to acknowledge above all else first - this is supposed to be a PvP event. That is the premise that I started with.
DeleteWhat is wrong? Players don't seem to know what pvp is.
DeleteGeorge, I like your ideas. Banking should be a goal not a mouse click. Where's the challenge in clicking a button to save your bounty?
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Look at all the Anonymous comments... Wow. Put your name to it, why don't you?
ReplyDeleteI can't comment to the Bounty mechanics, because I refuse to play Bounty. Why, you ask? Because it is, and has been from the very start of Bounty, a second monthly raid. We managed to kill off the FAT by ignoring it, and we should be doing the same to FAT 2.0.
George is absolutely right about the level of engagement that's required. I've got a full time job, and an second job already - I don't need another job that charges me coin instead of paying me cash. There's no real need to comment about the specifics, because we all know the general concept is true - there's too much grinding, and the only way to avoid the grinding is to pay the absurd premium on blitzing (what is the minimum blitz price now, about 5x what it cost a good fleet to do the target?)
We don't cry to George he makes his own educated dicisions. The fact is this bounty format is broken, claiming bounty stops players from effectively hitting decent base and encourages farming low levels in 1 hit. Bounty should never be a farming session like most seem to want to make it since many don't have the skill or knowhow of PvP mechanics.
ReplyDeleteooh wow here comes venom hurri-cry-cane no tfc show to cry on today learn to hit a base in one hit and you get the points its so ironic you cry about banks driving and tanked op but want to prep to prep abase 5 times and you get to repair your fleets each time to beat someone and expect defenders to sit still not bank and just hand over points freely what's next you want kix to put all op's on side so you can hit them easy with no effort so guys do a sds7 circle jerk in you alls spare time
DeleteI sincerely hope that Kixeye does not take on board any of your opinions Venom. They are self-serving to the elitist 0.2% of players that would literally kill the game overnight. We get that all you want to do is click the back of every single base. That would be a very dull game.
DeleteFirstly, forcing one hits is making those who are not so skilled out of base hitting for bounty they have to go hit replicas not out of their own choice. Lets make something very clear, I can one hit most people ask dabear that, the statement was made for those who are not in the 0.2% who dont have the fleet or driving ability to do so. This is supposed to encourage base hitting but all securing has done is encourage cowardice and npc farming again.
DeleteMarcus I seriously hope they do. I was one of the people who has been pushing hard for a balance, lower repair times, better explanation of items and mechanics for players, better pvp transition for those just starting pvp and finally I have been pushing out the maths so people can have aid which kixeye wont give making pvp easier for them.
I work a damn sight harder than a lot of people to try and show kix where issues are before they arise for the people who havent yet coined sht.
Lastly the click the back of base comment is a joke honestly, I dont build them fleets 1 they dont last and 2 they are no skill fleets. If you ever watch me hit I hit after working out how to best take down a base, what the guard needs what turrets need and how to best drive to take it down.
Now if you have constructive information instead of crying about sds7 go ahead im all ears.
Wow... this is interesting. I'm actually very curious now about something.
ReplyDeleteClearly, I believe that a PvP event should revolve around, you know, PvP, and approached this in that mindset.
I'd love to hear what those that disagree think that the Bounty should entail then. Since Bounty 8 I have stated that Bounty 7 was the one to beat. In that Bounty, there was a slight advantage to base defense and everything else was static. I also clearly remember disagreeing with some certain players in B8 who, at the time disagreed about B7 but now...
Looking at what we have now we are nowhere near that, but from the clear venom in the comments there seems to be a lot of players that would rather have a second raid a month rather than a PvP event.
Here is a thought, I'll add this comment to the end of the article, but I want to see some actual constructive feedback. My position has nothing to do with SDS7. It is borne of my ideal of PvP- what it once was and what I'd like to see back in the game. So why don't people ball up and put up some concise discourse instead of all that mess above?
you bring up a lot thats relevant there bud, it needs fixing and i cant disagree with what you suggest as i dont really know what the answer is to broken bounty. its certainly feels grindy and i do like the auto bank to a point, but its flawed as is and needs rethinking. stay safe mate
ReplyDeleteThey just need to stop doing bounty and combine it with the raid .That way we got time to play the dam game and not keep doing these dam chore things that kixeye is shoving at us .This is a pirate game but we can't be pirates and go out and hit one another cause kixeye keeps changing things and forcing us to build new ships even to get uranium/base parts.. They are killing the game and more and more people are leaving cause they can't keep up .So if you want to go tell kixeye to stop with there bounty and combine it to raid ...............
ReplyDelete^ I could support this.
DeleteTL;DR just an egocentric rant. No wonder Kixeye ignores you.
ReplyDeleteGot a better way to balance it that is all-inclusive? By all means...
DeleteA-fucking-Men bro, A-fucking--men.
ReplyDeleteGood heavens. Kixeye lost the plot a long time ago. It isn’t about being a pirate anymore as you can see in these snowflakes comments. Stealing is what the game used to be about and it was way more fun. Now there are so many bs chores to do and things that have been released not fully tested and broken that KIX is in constant crisis mode. If I still played George’s point of view would be one of the more educated I have read so far on this thread. Can’t believe you’re involved with sds7 though George. Lol “when you lay down with dogs you get up with fleas” comes to mind �� so many new things to Troll HAFFL about now though, was worth the read. Peace out George.
ReplyDeleteIf Bounty gets changed as George suggests, then it's an event for the BIG guys and coiners, which I don't mind, but then the same prizes should be made available in the next raid, so those that don't have the fleets or coins, can grind to their hearts content and have the ability to earn those prizes. The BIG guys will still have their new toys 2 weeks before the smaller pirates will possibly earn them.
ReplyDeleteWhy do you think this would be just for big players? The first auto bank is only 5k, the next few are still 10k and you can still bank daily at your choice- either just not while getting hit or a fixed percentage remains in the wild, so I'm not sure why anyone thinks this would preclude little players.
Delete